Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Video Archive: New Thinking Allowed Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 00:00:01 New Thinking Aloud is presented by the California. All right. Now, I'm going to go ahead and share my screen and get up the countdown clock timer and we'll begin that in one minute. Oh, here we go. This will do it. Okay. Can you still hear me? It's better. Okay, good. Yeah, I was using the wrong uh filter. So, now that might be hard. It is. Okay, good. That's why you log on a half an hour early. So, actually, we're live right now. Okay, we we are live. People will start logging in. Notices are being sent out 00:00:45 to thousands of our subscribers. So, they'll start logging in right away. Okay. Oh, that's great. Yeah, I was I was working on that piece that that you just played until about uh four o'clock in the morning. I think it's a it's still a work in progress, but uh you know, I know it's so time consuming when you focus on it like that second by second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's technical glitches and, you know, little things that need to be that still aren't ironed out that need to be ironed out. But but that whole sequence 00:01:24 is going to be really cool because I can't wait to get to the part with the tarantulas in the in the desert like you know I'm going to do the whole you know I don't know if you know Emmy Emmy that uh you know he he his uh recounting is that you know he woke up in the middle of the desert naked like on the ground surrounded by this circle of tarantulas that were just going around and around him but not not anywhere near him and and that's when he claims that he had had like an I guess it was an abduction 00:01:51 experience of some kind and and they worked on his brain and and uh you know helped him to do what he was doing. But was his daughter Lori in the car at the same time? That's what I believe. Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what that's what I read. You know, she's as far as I know, she's still alive. We can interview her. Yeah, that you know we we spoke about that before and uh and uh that's one of the reasons I decided to to do that scene, you know, in the event that we can reach her and uh you know, 00:02:21 ask her about it. I bet we can. And and as far as I know, she moved to Seattle, so I haven't been She used to live in um Southern California. Yeah, we we should uh make a note of that and and uh um see if we can at least get a Zoom call or something because uh you know just even if it's like as a preliminary interview plus there are a couple of grandchildren still alive and probably even some of his other probably Teddy, one of his sons is still alive. That would be great to interview them about 00:02:55 some of the um you know the poltergeist activity that they they supposedly used to always have around their house like you know hearing wild animals and hearing you know uh stuff moving around in the house and things like that. Yeah. Well, I'm just going to go and refresh my teacup. I'll be right back. Okay, Lance. Yes. I was just going to quickly ask because we were preparing one of the videos you're going to share during the live stream. I'm just noticing I'm wondering if you have a lamp or something that you can put in 00:03:26 front of your face or uh bump up your light. There we go. Thank you. Yeah, that this light was on and then it somehow I must have hit the button and it turned off. That's much better. Now we can see you more. Yeah, that's great. So, where are you located at? I mean, do you do you live in uh California or someplace else? And uh I do not live in California. My father was born there. I'm in St. Paul, Minnesota, the twin city of Minneapolis. Oh, wow. So, it probably just warmed up there recently. It was probably really cold 00:03:56 this winter. I imagine it was, although with some of the changes we're seeing in climate, it will sometimes get a thaw even in like January. So, we've been having kind of the up and down temps and uh yeah, we're definitely above freezing during the day and starting to I'm seeing some crocus and irises starting to pop up out of the ground and our chive plants too in our garden, our herb garden. That's great. I I I just recently moved to uh Louisiana from Southern California, having lived in Southern California most of my life. And 00:04:32 you know, we decided to make a big move and uh come to a little town in rural Louisiana because uh it's just so beautiful here, you know, and uh the summers are really hot, but other than that, like so far it's been, you know, just beautiful. Oh, that's awesome. I don't think I've ever been to Louisiana. I've been to Southern California, which is very beautiful. Yes, very beautiful. And and uh also gets hot, you know, these days, you know. Um, I mean, we talk about like climate change and things like that. Like, uh, when I was a 00:05:04 kid, I used to work in the rose fields. Like, you know, my family had a a rose farm in central California in McFarland. And, um, and if it got to 100 degrees, we'd all get sent home. Everybody'd go home, you know, because it was too hot. And, and that was rare, but I used to look forward to those days because it was like, you know, easy day. You leave, right? It's like equivalent to our winter snow days when we were kids, right? But but now I mean it's it's like so common that it's 100 degrees that 00:05:34 it's not even feasible, you know, that you you know in the summertime it just gets up to 100 degrees off way sometimes over 100, you know, 115 degrees even, you know, so it's kind of kind of scary. But here it got it it did get really cold this winter. I mean, it was um some days were down to 15 degrees. So, so it got really cold. But I what I found out was that once it's freezing, you it's just cold. I mean, I I didn't even notice the difference between 15 and 30. It was just cold anyway. Yeah. I've noticed that once Well, here 00:06:13 I I also would say it's like the wind because I can go for a walk sometimes at like zero degrees, maybe for like 20 minutes or so. um if it's not too breezy. But yeah, it's uh there's a lot of change going on. We actually are a different I think we're zone 4B now for gardening. So, or just in general, but then it changes when things warm up and things are definitely warming up more more quickly in the beginning of the spring and then staying warm longer in the autumn. Yeah. Yeah. Um I was here last summer and now 00:06:48 everybody here in Louisiana warns me. They say they say, "Well, have you been here during the summer?" Because, uh, you know, it's nice now, but it's not hot in the summer. And it is true. It gets really hot. But, uh, we'll see how I do with, uh, gardening. We just planted a bunch of like, uh, pepper plants and, uh, some melons and stuff like that in our backyard. We'll see if they actually can survive this this uh, you know, heat. [Music] Well, you'll probably get germination and a good garden. It's just Yeah, they 00:07:19 can sometimes start to suffer a little bit, but something. Yeah. How are you, Jeffrey? Very well, thank you. That's good. Um, I'm using a a lot of uh new technologies for for the uh reenactments now that are just it's stunning how how good the technology is getting. I mean, it really is uh kind of a revolution in in um I think the way that people are going to consume media and things like that. It might be something to talk about. Well, I think what we what we should do when we start in about three 00:08:00 minutes, I'll introduce you and Emmy, of course, and then if you could make a short statement, you know, 10 minutes or so, just talking about your experience of delving into the Ted Owens material. to begin with and then maybe we'll show one of the the new short video. Okay, sounds fine. And then we'll I mean I think it would be better if uh uh I don't know if I can I can speak for 10 minutes straight about you know my experience, but we can probably go back and forth and I may ask I may ask you 00:08:33 and we can riff on it. Oh, okay. Whatever. You mean you can't channel Ted Owens by now, Lance? I think Jeffrey probably can. I think Jeffrey can or like channel tweeter and Twitter. Yeah, I if you notice I put a little nod to them at the end of that video. But um but I'm I am more than willing to come out to New Mexico and and let's set up a session as part of the film or maybe not part of the film, whatever. But but uh do a a Twitter and Twitter uh channel session with Jeffrey and and uh we'll we'll uh we'll do the 00:09:10 whole like face capture and you know the whole thing. It'll be great. If nothing else, it'll make a great episode. You know, uh I just completed an interview. I don't think it's been released yet on psychedelic entities. I interviewed the two authors of of the book and one of them under DMT had the experience of a giant mantislike being operating on his brain and that's cool that it changed his whole life. That it happened about 50 years ago and he hasn't been the same person since. that he thinks about it every day. Wow. You 00:09:54 you would I'm so shocked by how many stories I've heard like that. And I don't even go around looking for those stories. I mean, it's just like randomly, you know, people will uh like if you remember Nick Sackler, you know, we met him at a conference, he uh had a near-death experience and and in the near-death experience, he encountered these these same mant beings and didn't know anything about them. There's I didn't appreciate it at the time. I was doing the research with Ted Owens. What an enormous lore there is around these 00:10:25 manted beings. I before I knew any, this is something I could mention in the talk. Before I even knew anything about it, I'd had a experiences with them in meditation and thought it was just really weird. Yeah, maybe they were responsible for teleporting your car. They could be. They could be. Anyhow, we're we're about to get started in just a few seconds. Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Jeffrey Meshlov. I'm with the co-host of New Thinking Aloud, Emmy Vades. Hello everybody. And our special guest today, 00:11:11 film producer Lance Mongia. Hello everybody. Thanks for joining us. Lance is also the producer of a new film which was just released, a very significant documentary called The Program and as well as another one uh he worked with James Fox on called The Phenomenon and another one that he worked with Russell Tar on called Thirdeye Spies. So Lance is a an expert in both the field of euphology and the field of parasychology. Uh so I thought he's the perfect person for me to partner with to create a documentary about the unusual 00:11:58 case uh that I researched for 11 years between 1976 and 1987. the case of the PK man Ted Owens. And uh interestingly, it's been over 50 years or almost 50 years since I first met Ted Owens and began uh this study, but only now, I think, is has our culture evolved to the point where this story can be told to a larger audience. So, welcome, Lance. It's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you. Thank you, Jeffrey. I mean, it's a um probably an overstatement to say I'm an expert in anything. I mean, I'm I I I 00:12:41 tend to be a uh a person a jack of all trades. I know just enough to be dangerous in several different categories. But but uh but but no, I I have really uh spent a long time researching and thinking about these issues and and uh you know, I've been on your show several times and and uh spoken about my own experiences and I feel like in the fields of both euphology and parasychology, you can't really cognize it or get into it unless you've experienced it. you know, it's like I think that's why so many experiencers 00:13:16 become, you know, documentarians or write books or whatever because uh you it's it's very hard just to grasp intellectually uh you know something that doesn't really make any sense. I mean, whether that's uh um manted beings, you know, floating in space or or whether that's Ted Owens uh you know, looking out his window and deciding that he's going to channel the weather somewhere, you know. I mean, I uh and and it just at first none of it makes any sense, but then you start to realize that people that are 00:13:50 even much smarter than yourself um don't know what's going on, but know that something is there. and and uh um and then you wind up kind of just going back to a place I think where we live in a very mysterious universe and and uh um there's still a lot that we don't understand about science and and uh I do think there is a way to couch this in non-magical terms. I mean I don't think it is just magical thinking or um some uh superstition. I I do think that that our consciousness is so powerful that we 00:14:23 literally create our own realities. my personal experience and my point of view on when I'm having a better day. But um you know I was I was talking right before this call started um that uh you know I've been approached by so many people over the years that that have had experiences like what Ted Owens claims and oftentimes nobody believes them. I mean, uh, you know, I also worked on a documentary that hasn't come out yet called, um, My Traveler, which was the story of Andrea Parharic. Uh, and, uh, 00:14:58 you know, maybe she's on this call today. Heidi uh, Jerka was, um, interviewed on your show, who was one of his space kids, you know, who, uh, had worked with him doing, um, you know, remote viewing and channeling work and things like that. And uh Andrea's whole claim to fame was that he would go around and listen to these people and take them seriously and and uh not treat it like uh you know they had some kind of psychological condition but understanding that there really was something going on and uh you know much 00:15:29 like Russell Tar much like Halputoff Steven Schwarz Jeffrey yourself many others there's a lot of very very knowledgeable um smart researchers that are working on this subject again much smarter than myself but that um have devoted their lives to try to understand some of these mysteries. I mean if you go back and look at John Mack, I mean who wrote the forward to your book to PK man. I mean he was somebody who was a very skeptical Harvard you know um psychologist the head of their department and yet he 00:16:03 could not deny the evidence that he found after interviewing you know hundreds of these people that have had the kinds of experiences that Ted had. And uh Ted just happened to be more of a a flamboyant character and and I think sort of took the reigns of what had happened to him more uh fully than a lot of other people do. I mean he wasn't afraid to tell you about where he got his abilities from or what he could do. and and in fact in fact that that was his whole sort of claim to fame is that he 00:16:37 would you know actually document these things ahead of time by putting them in newspapers by putting them in in letters to respected scientists and um and that led to this documentary really you know it's almost like Ted Owens made the documentary for us by by creating so much material of what he did and then then thankfully Jeffrey with you having preserved it for all of these years. But um I do think that it really does say a lot about what we are as a conscious beings. You know, it's it's not so much 00:17:16 that that uh um stuff is happening to us as we have an intricral voice in making it happen. And I think that's what really is kind of the crux of the Ted Owens story and what interested me in making this documentary with you, Jeffrey, is is the the idea that that uh somehow our role in reality is much much greater and and sort of much more in line with what uh you know, esoteric texts and mystics have said for thousands of years and what science is starting to prove, which is that our consciousness has a vote 00:17:51 in our reality. you know, and in terms of what happens. So, um, you know, I I could go on and on about a thousand different things, but I do feel like us making this documentary, uh, has been sort of like guided, like, you know, I've been guided along this path over the years where certain things just kind of come into my my awareness and and it just leads one thing to another and this is kind of like a logical progression. But it's also really very um difficult I think for the mainstream to take seriously. It's like 00:18:27 when I when I meet people who are researchers or uh or even experiencers oftentimes, like I said, they're not taken seriously. And I think it's just because there's almost like a a psychological block that society has to new things and to new ideas, new thinking. And um it's very very hard to change the paradigm of the status quo. It you've been chipping away at it for years and years and I think very effectively because you ground your work and you you know um oftentimes someone will say I've got all the answers. I 00:19:02 know everything. I know exactly what happened here. And that's not really the case. I think anybody that says that you can't fully believe because we're all just trying to figure it out. And I think almost like that's the point, you know, is is trying to really figure out what our place in this reality is, you know. So, I can ramble on for hours, but I won't. Well, maybe it would be a good idea to show uh our viewers a short excerpt of that you have prepared. And I think we're looking at the moment when Ted 00:19:34 Owens first experienced contact with alien an alien presence that changed his life and apparently greatly accelerated certain abilities that he had already had since he was young. Yeah. Um let me set that that clip up a little bit. So, um, if you're not familiar with the PK man story, um, Ted Owens claimed that that, uh, he had these astonishing psycho-inetic abilities to be able to move matter, uh, affect weather patterns, sort of synchronistically alter reality in in ways with his consciousness. And, um, he 00:20:14 claimed that this power was coming to him from what was called the space intelligences. and in particular two manted looking beings that were 7 feet tall and and that um were on a spaceship above the earth and telepathically communicating with him. That was his belief as to where uh those powers were originating from. And it took him a number of years to actually come to that conclusion. It actually uh sort of escalated over time, but it all started in 1955 when he was uh you know of living in rural Texas and he was driving 00:20:48 down the road with his daughter and he uh looked up and he saw a craft and uh shortly after that he started having telepathic communications. He didn't know exactly with who yet, but that led him to start doing some of the things that he did. And um what you're going to see today is a short snippet of a longer scene. Um this is sort of the setup. Um and as the scene goes on, we'll in in the next couple of segments of this, you'll actually see that Ted um claimed that he had an abduction experience. And 00:21:22 that's really what led him to kind of put all of the pieces together. uh he claimed that they operated on his brain and and uh somehow unlocked these sort of latent abilities that perhaps we all may have. Um but uh anyway, this is just a snippet of it. And what's interesting now is with the technology, I can really create compelling and consistent characters. And so the plan with this documentary is you're going to see Ted Owens age over the years. And and when we're seeing him in this clip, he's 00:21:52 probably 35 years old. and uh you know then we'll see him again at 45 and then at 55 and and see how he kind of progressed uh and became the person he is. And so I find that really fascinating just from a technological standpoint that we're able to do that now. Um so anyway, um this is just a short clip if we'd like to play it. Okay, here we go. Take me a moment to get it all set up and Oh, I've got a problem. Hold on. I've got to change the uh There we go. Live performance audio is on. And now 00:22:29 we'll share the screen with the video. And we'll make the video full screen. And here it goes. It was January or February 1955. Ted Owens was driving with his daughter Lori on a lonely road outside Fort Worth. It was the day that for PK man it all began to come [Music] together. This is amazing. Daddy, look. What's that? [Music] [Music] [Music] Heat. Heat. It vanished like a breath held too long, as if the sky itself had blinked. To Ted Owens, it was no accident. It was the beginning of something vast. A signal 00:23:58 cast across the silence of space, answered, "Not with words, but with presence. What came next would strip away the veil of the ordinary, rewire his mind, and draw him into a shadow war between the waking world and something far stranger, something watching. Okay. And now I have to reset the audio. There we go. Okay. That was a great clip. very moving. I felt emotions in that scene. Oh, that's the highest compliment. Thank you. Because that's the that's what, you know, I always try to strive for is is to find an emotional 00:24:47 connection, you know, to the characters, whether it be a documentary or a or a narrative or a 30 second commercial or a two-hour feature. Uh I think you can see the the power of these kinds of reenactments there because you get this look. He's not horrified by the event. He's maybe startled for a moment, but then it's like, I found my tribe, you know. You know, it's like he's he's he's he he becomes, you know, uh almost more relaxed at the end of the clip as opposed to, you know, freaked out. And 00:25:16 and uh you know, I think that was very true with with Owens. And I think for a lot of people, I mean, I think that, you know, um when we understand that, you know, the possibility is real, that we're not alone, that there's a larger world out there, that we're not just all what's inside our own head, you know, um it can be very liberating. And for for Owens, it was um my mind always wanders back to the story of um Christopher Columbus. And you know, supposedly when the natives first saw the ships arrive 00:25:48 in the harbor, they they literally couldn't see it, you know, like they just couldn't process that maybe these ships from Europe were real. And um and it took the shaman to to go, "No, no, but look, see the thing with the the cross and the thing? That's that's the ship and those are people, you know, because uh uh for most people it's just so far outside of their reality. And and with uh Owens, you know, that broke him open somehow. And and and this is actually a very common thing, I think, with experiencers is that they will see 00:26:20 something in the sky or they'll have some sort of an experience and it does something where it just kind of cracks their reality open. And one of the thing that experiencers don't often talk about uh because it's too crazy sounding is is that it's not just seeing ships in the sky. Oftent times someone will see something in the sky but then they'll start having poltergeist activity at home and things will start flying around or they'll start having uh you know other kinds of weird experiences that 00:26:48 they can't explain. again as if when you see one crazy thing uh and recognize that the possibility is there that that's real and you're not just crazy, then it somehow opens you up, you know, and um it's just very common. And and uh it's often why people don't talk about these kinds of stories is because uh it's just too crazy, you know, for for their uh they self censor because your mom's not going to like it, your co-workers aren't going to like it. you know, um, everybody's going to say, "Okay, time to get out the, you know, 00:27:20 the rubber room for this person." And, um, in reality, it's it's a common thing and I think much more common than we realize. Yes. And many of the world's religions are based on these kinds of experiences. I'm just curious, Lance, with and Jeff, is this this scene that you just shared, was this the first time that Ted Owens was had an experience of seeing a craft or no of seeing a craft? I believe so. But Jeffrey, maybe I'm wrong. Is that correct? To my knowledge, it it would be because he had certain abilities up in 00:27:55 prior to this uh that they for example he ended up long before this experience. He was already working with JB Ry at the parasychology laboratory at Duke University. He had written to JB Ry while he was in the Navy in the 1940s because he was already having unusual experiences and he sought guidance from Ry as to how he could test himself and Ry corresponded with him and then eventually invited him to come to Duke University where Ry helped him enroll as a student and hired him as a an assistant to work at the Parasychology 00:28:38 Laboratory where he uh claims that all sorts of uh paranormal events were were happening around him and and it he didn't know how to attribute those events. Could they have been because he came from a family of people who had psychic experiences or he he began to feel like he was in touch with the powers of nature. But then after the UFO experience, he said, "No, it's not nature. It's specifically these alien entities and and uh you know I it actually and these are things that I do want to cover 00:29:16 in the documentary uh is the progression of how he got to the point of the space intelligences and started using that as kind of his I like to say like a permission slip you know to to do the types of things that he claimed to do. Um the uh it started actually when he was a child like I mean you know there's a great story uh that he tells about how he was at a public swimming pool and and he jumped off a diving board and then like just stuck midair for a little bit and then went down into the water and 00:29:45 other people saw it and and uh you know he he came out of it um thinking wow what an amazing thing that just happened to me and uh even the people that saw it shunned him immediately and and it started off this whole sort of a I mean it was one of probably many events that started this kind of need for him to prove himself uh you know in the uh you know sort of world of psychokinesis and then again was repeated when he was in the Navy you know in the Navy uh during World War II he was stationed in the 00:30:17 Pacific and uh had a levitation experience which we kind of allude to in kind of a tongue-in-cheek way in the teaser but um he claimed that happened that that he uh wound up levitating and and was seen by several of the other sailors and uh he he could not explain these things as to why they were happening to him and that's why he reached out to JB Ryan you know at Duke University who was one of the only people uh and most famous people to study you know parasychology uh especially at that time and and so that 00:30:51 really um there's a lifelong sort of need an ache within Ted Owens to to show the world what he can do. And and uh um and it's funny because I I've met other, you know, psychics and, you know, people who do paranormal type things uh over the years. Um even somebody like Nurie Geller, you know, who who it seems like a sh a trait they all share is is this this sort of need to share the things that they're doing and and sort of be taken seriously. And you can't blame them. I mean, I guess anybody wants to be taken seriously for what 00:31:28 they do, but u it's a lot harder. And um I also sort of believe I speculate I should say that uh these types of things happen when they're surrounded by a belief in them. It's kind of like you know with anybody like psychologically like if if you believe in a co-orker or a child or something and believe they're going to do well, they'll do well. And it seems like when it comes to, you know, unexplainable paranormal stuff, um, oftentimes it's, you know, the belief makes it more real somehow. And I 00:32:03 think that even goes back to shamanism and in sort of the the, uh, you know, all throughout the ages. Oftent times shamans will use tricks to uh, you know, put the audience in the mind state of where they want to be. Not just because they're fraudulent, but because they u they want to create a perception of belief because it somehow makes it easier for them to do what they do. You know, like take again is a great example. Uh I spent years talking to uh Russell um Tar about Geller and we debated back and forth whether I should 00:32:38 be in our movie Third Eyee Spies together because um I is a very flamboyant character. He he uh can be very controversial. You know, there's the famous Johnny Carson thing where he wasn't able to bend the spoons on live TV and does it discredit remote viewing or not? And and uh you know what's funny about Ur's story is that Urri could bend spoons all day long in any kind of a a casual setting. Um, and matter of fact, in one story, he got up from the lunch table and all the spoons in the cafeteria, you know, all around the 00:33:12 tables were were were bent, you know, like is the is the story. So, there's there's something going on there. But in a laboratory setting with skeptical scientists watching him, he he never bent a spoon, you know, at SRRI anyway, you know. So, um, and I've I've talked to Russell about it and I've said, "Do you think it's possible that, uh, you know, that your own belief system may have polluted the experiment and prevented him from doing something?" And, um, Russell actually agreed with that when we spoke about it, you know, 00:33:42 he said that was a distinct possibility, you know. So, anyway, personally observed Uri Geller uh, bending metal in a laboratory setting at UC Berkeley. So it does happen from time to time. Uh Lance, we have a question from Pablo Geralda who is one of our volunteers who asks if you can describe the process of creating a documentary film like yours. What is your approach? Oh, that's great. That that's great. And and uh uh I I actually thought about if I hadn't had this video ready, I was going to maybe take you 00:34:20 guys behind the scenes and maybe we can do that another day. um you know one uh with a different setup than this one. But um you know my my process has evolved over over time and and I started getting into documentaries um when um I was working at a a public television station where um I had to do basically everything on my own often from the lighting to the shooting to you know everything. And uh prior to that I had worked you know in you know mainstream media in in LA uh making feature films as a as a narrative director and and as 00:34:57 a narrative director you get to tell everybody what to do and then you sit in the back of the room and everybody gets paid lots of money to sit there and you know do what you're asking if you if you have a big budget. Um, but when I was at the TV station I was working at, that was right when uh digital cameras first started hitting, you know, the uh the DSLRs and the the the higher quality cameras. And prior to that, um, I'd never even thought about making documentaries because it's just too expensive with film and, you know, 00:35:25 processing and things like that. But all of the sudden, I was completely liberated and, um, I could just grab a camera and and it the footage was looking as good as what film used to look like. And I used to be a purist would only shoot on film and you know that kind of thing but it was just changing and that was really the beginning of the revolution that we're seeing now. And I often say that um film is one of the only true constantly evolving art forms. It's not set. It's it's constantly changing and 00:35:57 we're getting new tools and new ways of getting stories out and and uh telling stories and uh so I've really kind of embraced that new school of of film making now which I believe soon is going to really overtake the entire film industry uh very close like within months um and that's u you know a lot of live realtime animation things like uh Unreal Engine which was originally a game engine um and also more recently uh the AI tools that that are coming out. Um you know there's um absolutely stunning technological developments uh 00:36:34 that you can use to um create images and and uh video whole cloth and it's not really being used effectively yet because I think a lot of the um um a lot of people aren't aren't yet using it as a story storytelling tool. It's more about testing it and it's literally changing every week. But um what I recognize now is that the possibility is really there to tell huge stories um with this new technology and do it at a much much lower cost and much more quickly than you could have even done two three years ago. So, um, it's a 00:37:12 great time to be creative and, you know, and people are worried about AI and is it going to replace art or does it crib art or whatever, you know, um, artists have always been inspired by other art and and we all stand on the shoulders of giants because of all of the stuff that's come before us. And I feel like now, um, it's just gotten easier and easier to be creative. And you know, maybe one day soon, um, AI will be better than human beings at making films, but that's not here yet, and I don't think it will be. Um, I think it's 00:37:45 another tool in the toolbox. And so, I'm embracing anything I can get my hands on, uh, to tell the stories like this because, uh, a, it's cheaper, and b, uh, you know, because, um, I feel like I can be so much more, uh, freedom, you know, just freedom in in doing the the stories without the need for a large crew. Um, a lot of this I do solo, you know, I do mostly on my own. So, that's I hope that answers the question. Yeah, that was a great answer. Jeff, can I ask you a quick question before we get into all the fabulous ones 00:38:21 coming in from our audience members? What led you to become interested in Ted Owens and spend 10 or 11 years of your life studying him? Well, he was already a legend. Uh, when I started out, I had heard about him from multiple sources. People who were deeply into the UFO field uh knew about his claims because his claims go his public claims go back to the 1960s. And so there were UFO enthusiasts. The the first one I spoke to was a fellow named Robert Houston, who was Jean Houston's younger brother. 00:39:06 I was at the time taking Gan Houston's mystery school program, which was deeply influential in in my life. Uh and and I met her brother, visited his apartment in New York City, and he couldn't wait to pull out the Ted Owens book and and and show it to me, how to contact space people. And then a few years later, I was at SRRI International having my first experience in remote viewing uh with Hal Putoff and Russell Tar. And uh they uh were so excited. You know, we were doing remote viewing which was 00:39:45 world changing at at the time. They were, you know, the seinal people involved in creating the whole discipline of remote viewing and invited me to their laboratory because I was a graduate student who knew them. Uh to to demonstrate it, we had a successful demonstration. But the exciting thing they wanted to talk about more than anything else was this character Ted Owens who had written to them just a few weeks earlier saying he was going to prove to them how he was the world's greatest psychic by creating a huge 00:40:23 snowstorm in California in in an area where there's almost never any snow at a time where there was a drought and the newspapers said the drought shows no end in sight. He said, "I'm going to end that drought in a couple of days, and you'll know I did it because there's going to be every kind of crazy weather, winds, hail, snow, sleet, UFOs, and your local newspaper will publish a front page story saying that the drought is over." And when all of that happened within two or three days, put off and 00:40:58 tar were amazed. And Russell Tar sent a note back to Ted Owens saying, "Wow, that was a really great prediction." And Ted Owens responded by saying, "Hell no, that was no prediction. I caused it." And at that point, they were eager because they were getting funding from the CIA at the time in their remote viewing work and they wanted to keep a very low profile. They were already in embarrassed by the fact that Urri Geller, who had been in their laboratory, was such a famous public figure. They didn't like that. And and 00:41:37 Ted Owens gave every sign that he would be even more outrageous than Erie Geller. So, they thought, "We've got to get this material studied, but we can't do it here in our laboratory. And here's this promising young graduate student. maybe we can convince him to take on the project. And I was naive enough to say, "Yeah, I'll do it." And you walked out the door with the big box and they high-fived each other. Yeah. That that was the beginning of an adventure that continues to this day. And now here's an interesting question. 00:42:21 Andre Slavage Prosowski, one of our regular viewers, asks, "Do you recall any situations in which there were signals that Ted Owens contacted someone during the production of the film?" So, I know I have felt that I've been in contact with him since his death, Lance, but I never asked you, have have you ever felt a sense of of contact? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I I felt that way during Thirdey Spies often with Ingo Swan because uh I had an assistant that that would get whiffs of cigar smoke in in the edit room from you 00:42:59 know and Ingo used to smoke these big cigars and nobody smoked but uh in in terms of Ted Owens. I could give you an example from yesterday. I I woke up thinking about the interview today and and uh this is yesterday morning. And the first thing I always do is I have to take my dogs outside and I I put them out in the yard and we planted some little garden things in the backyard. So, I have to go out and water those. And um and I go out and I'm thinking I'm really tired. I I don't really want to 00:43:26 go water all the these little plants, you know. I I really wish it would rain or something, you know. Come on, Ted. Help me out, you know. And it's instantly started raining. It started raining while I was standing there getting the hose for the for the plants. It just started raining and and I was like, "Oh man." And I So I came back inside. We have two dogs and so I had to take the other one out now in the rain. And and by the time I went from the back door to the front door, it was like torrential downpour rain in that moment. 00:43:55 And and then I was like, "Oh man, I I don't really want to take the dog out. There's a dog that didn't want to go out in this." And so I'm like, "Oh man, I hope I hope Ted will stop this." you know, and and I by the time I took the dog out to the front lawn, it had stopped raining. Oh, that was it, you know, and and um and there's actually another story that I often think of long before I I knew anything about Ted Owens, knew anything about manted beings or anything else, you know, um of an esoteric nature. Uh you know, this was 00:44:25 probably circa 2011 or 10. uh when I when I had taken up meditation and in one of my earliest meditations I I just had a moment where um I I caught a flash of something which were these two giant beings like I'm standing there and I'm looking up at them in this meditation and they're they've got these like mantis looking heads and they're kind of hunched over looking down at me. one in a blue robe with all of these like kind of hieroglyphic looking things on it and the other one in a red robe with the 00:44:58 same and and it was just this like moment and then I instantly came out of it and I went, you know, that's really bizarre because that wasn't on my radar. Never heard of him before. Didn't know anything about it. And it wasn't until, you know, years later when um after we had met and I started getting some of these stories and things like that. And uh I wonder if that was uh Twitter and Twitter making a uh introduction back in the day several years earlier. Well, I think according to Ted Owens, 00:45:30 Tweeter and Twitter, the alien beings he referred to as the space intelligences who were manted like beings who who existed in a giant invisible UFO hovering over uh the Earth. that that these beings endowed him with these superpowers as an experiment to see how how the human civilization would respond to such a person. And I can't help but think that you and I are still part of that experiment. Even though Ted Owens died in 1987, we're we're still in uh you know carrying on the uh project that they 00:46:17 initiated with him back in the 1950s. And I've been led to believe that uh these beings probably have uh lifespans that are very different from ours. Uh, one of my professors at Berkeley uh, when I got my degree in parasychology was James Harter who was a a UFO researcher, the research director for an organization known as the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization or APRO. He was the one who specialized in hypnotizing UFO abductees. And uh his information was that these these beings come from civilizations very different 00:47:01 from ours. Uh and they have lifespans equivalent to maybe 20,000 of our years. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I I mean um I wouldn't be a a bit surprised if if um our planet is is is being carefully watched in the same way that we would watch an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon. you know, um, you know, I've I've never been to the, uh, pristine forests of the Amazon, but I like knowing that they're there, and I kind of like knowing that there's, uh, people who are untouched by, you know, Coca-Cola and and, uh, um, 00:47:38 you know, all television and everything else and are living a completely different kind of life. And I understand that if I was just to show up there that it would probably be incredibly disruptive, uh, you know, to to their environment. and and uh I can't help but think that that's probably what uh you know whether you call them ETes or interdimensional beings whatever they are you know would probably feel about us. I think we're naive to think that we're at the top of the uh the ladder here. But I also think that just based 00:48:07 on on um experiencers that I've talked to over the years that that uh whatever else is out there that's watching us and possibly was communicating with with Ted Owens and others uh cares about what happens here and and uh is probably highly concerned with a lot of the BS stuff that we do here on this planet. You know, from destroying our environment to um nuclear war and etc. I mean, it's very possible that that uh there might even be um you know, maybe they're already here as Bob Bigalow says and and and uh don't want to get blown 00:48:42 up in a nuclear holocaust. Would prefer that we decide to work out our issues, you know, together, you know, and and that tends to be a theme that that I have gone to again and again in these types of films. like we did it in the phenomenon and I've done it in um you know other films like if you go back and look like the aerial school kids in phenomenon in in um Zimbabwe there you know like that whole contact experience they had with these creatures with the large heads and the uh and the almond 00:49:09 shaped eyes uh kind of the classic grays um there were you know dozens and dozens of these kids that all got the same telepathic impression of um environmental degradation of nuclear for um of basically saying, you know, you're too reliant upon your own technology and you're you're not getting the broader picture here. And uh and I hear that again and again. I one of the producers on the phenomenon actually u was an experiencer and back in like the uh I think it was the 60s, he had an abduction experience where these uh 00:49:43 beings took him aboard the craft apparently and showed him on these giant monitors. Uh this the same thing that those aerial school kids um described which was uh you know these things and you know then they looked at him and they said you did this everything we're showing you here you did this and and then and then they looked at him again and they said so what are you going to do about it and and he actually has devoted his life to uh to not having that outcome you know he's he's actually gone around uh um to different African 00:50:17 countries and uh different places even spoken at the UN uh about planting trees you know, and he he's planted millions and millions of trees and he's raised a lot of money to do it, you know, and it's like one person can actually make a difference in this stuff, you know, and I think that really is the key message to Ted Owens's legacy is that we're not helpless victims on this planet, you know, like we we actually, if we decide to have a say in the outcome, you know, like there's no prophet that's going to 00:50:46 say, you know, next week the asteroid hits and you're all dead, you know, like you get to decide. you know, are are you going to be on that timeline through the way, you know, your consciousness reacts uh or a different one? You know, that's my opinion, but but I think that there's a lot of evidence even scientifically that points in that direction. Yeah. Here's a question from a viewer named Jim Murray who asks, "Lance, can you say if any of your research about TED surprised you and changed your world 00:51:22 view?" It's a great question. That's a really good question. Um, yeah, I mean, absolutely. Uh, I mean, when I first, uh, you know, I first heard about PK man, um, in a talk that Jeffrey gave uh, circa 20 14 or 15. Um you were you were speaking at a um remote viewing u get together and I happened to be there and I heard him tell some of the stories about it and he he said uh you know I have these uh audio tapes of Ted Owens and um you know I can give you a copy of it. uh he told the audience uh he says but you got 00:51:58 to take it really seriously because it can really you know affect you and it can you know it's it's powerful and um I didn't take it that seriously because I thought well I mean what's going to happen I mean really but um delving more into the archives over the last few years and and uh more encounters with Jeffrey more encounters with other people and also just my own journey I mean it it's it has changed changed me from the perspective that um what I used to feel a lot more sort of skeptical about as kind of a 00:52:33 discerning skeptic which I like to be um I now have to really accept at at face value you know which is you know like if we can believe that dowsers are real you know if we can believe that that uh you know Native Americans can do a rain dance and and you know bring rain if we believe in the power of prayer that that uh uh prayer and you know mass prayer may have an effect uh random number generators uh affecting um random number generators at a distance with consciousness like on 911 or any kind of 00:53:05 mass event. Uh you know it's it's the it's not one thing that changes a person's point of view. It's the the body of evidence. It's being exposed to it over and over again and then it's the personal application of that in your life. You know, I've had so many experiences in my life where things could have gone horribly wrong and then they turn out okay, you know, and I'm hoping that I'm still on a roll and it will continue. But but uh you know, it's it's um everything in life is a risk, but when we understand that that we're 00:53:38 not helpless in it. It's a hard thing to learn, you know, and I I I hope that we can contribute to that because that this project and and some of the other things I've done help contribute to my sort of understanding of that. If that helps or makes any sense, I don't know. Jeeoff, I think the same question could apply to you if you care to answer that. Well, it it's you know Ted Owens had such a deep impact on on me that uh it changed my life very very dramatically because I was still a graduate student 00:54:17 studying parasychology when I encountered Ted Owens and began this research and included it in a first draft of my doctoral dissertation. Well, what do you suppose happened then? One of my committee members said, "I quit." Robert Morris, who who was a distinguished parasychologist at the time, and uh he he shortly thereafter moved to Edinburg, Edinburgh as it's said in in Scotland and established a the Kesler chair of parasychology there, which is still ongoing. uh but he left my doctoral dissertation committee because he said 00:54:58 uh from his point of view UFOs and parasychology should never be combined. Parasychology has enough trouble as a a parascience all by itself. It it's it doesn't need to be uh contaminated by contact with UFOs. uh sort of reminds me of uh back in the day Sammy Davis Jr. a famous entertainer who was both black and Jewish used to say, "I have enough sorus being black. Do I have to be Jewish?" Also, you know, that's exactly like what uh Russell's concern was doing um Third Eye Spies when we did that movie. You know, 00:55:44 he didn't really want to get into the the psychokinesis or the PK the UFO subject or anything like that because it was it was just a bridge too far. It's like you're you're uh one unbelievable thing at a time, he always used to say. But at the same time, um I think there's more and more mounting evidence that one thing is related to the other. You know, that that there is not this sort of clear delineation in the different fields. Um you you can't have the UFO subject without having the consciousness 00:56:16 component of it. And uh I think there's no clearer connection to that than Hal Putoff, you know, like the guy that was doing the remote viewing stuff has now come forward in the program and in other talks other places talking about his work with the government uh researching the UAP subject. And who better to research the UAP subject, although he does not say this in any way, you know, that he's actually doing this. But in my own estimation, who better than someone who understands consciousness really 00:56:43 well, you know, and uh and then you have people like um Jacob Barber, you know, who who just recently came out on NewsNation and uh has been vetted, you know, and we spoke in the program to u to a 37year veteran of the Senate Armed Services Committee, you know, as a staff member who who vouched for several of these uh undercover sort of whistleblowers that are coming forward in the UAP field. And Jake Barber being one of those people who came forward to Congress, uh, you know, was a security guard, uh, 00:57:15 moving down, um, exotic craft around, often US exotic craft, but, uh, he what he claimed was sometimes non-human craft as well. Um, but to me the most shocking statement he made in that Ross Kohhart interview, if we're going to believe his credentials and if we're going to believe that he's real, which personally I I have no reason not to because I think he's been very thoroughly vetted, uh he claims that the government still operates teams of psionics that that uh go out when they when they uh site these 00:57:46 craft and uh in particular try to make contact with these craft. And and uh what I found the most shocking thing that the guy said more than anything else in that interview was that uh these teams of psionics not only make contact with the craft but they try to hijack sometimes the systems that control it which is all consciousness based and make it land. you know, like that's so blow mind, you know, first of all, I think it's very rude, but but uh but but secondly, it's it's uh blow mind if it 00:58:19 is true that human consciousness is that powerful that that you can not only control a craft but hijack it. I mean, it's it's so crazy. But at the same time on the progression of craziness over the years and the disclosures and the things that we understand uh it's just one more thing saying that your consciousness is very powerful and that we should not discount any part of the field. You know if you're going to believe one crazy thing it's almost like you have to be open to to all of it and and at the same 00:58:51 time remain as a discerning skeptic and not just swallow anything. But um you know there there is a progression of evidence that's building all the time and I think one of the biggest dangers to parasychology or eupfology is to try to like cordon it off and make it just one thing. um even though is very common that it's you know dogma is the biggest enemy that we have on this planet you know no matter what it's about you know just the the sort of dogged determination that I'm right and you're wrong and only my way works and your way 00:59:25 is wrong you know that is such a self-destructive and unproductive way of doing science I think anyway well it's true everything that you're saying is is correct Lance but Let's remember this is the year 2025. So we we've come a long way. Back in 1980 when I first uh received my doctoral degree in parasychology because I had done this research with Ted Owens and it was in my doctoral dissertation and it had become even then a little bit what I was known for. The guy who was willing to explore this area. I became uh completely 01:00:10 unhirable in any parasychology laboratory. Uh they they were looking for people who didn't have anything in their history that that would be considered controversial like like that. So which ultimately worked out for the best for me. Uh but at the time it meant, you know, I had to start scrambling and figuring out how am I going to earn a living because I I naively imagined that maybe SRRI or some of the other laboratories would uh offer a job to somebody who who just got the world's first doctoral degree in 01:00:51 parasychology. How wrong I was. So that that experience with Ted Owens has really shaped my entire life since That's actually fascinating. I I didn't know that part, you know. I didn't know that that uh that you had experienced blowback even after getting your your uh doctorate. I knew that the getting the doctorate itself, it was a controversial, you know, topic that you were considering covering. But um that's really interesting that that uh you know, even in the field of parasychology, you know, it may have 01:01:21 held you back in some way initially because um you know, thank goodness it kind of did because you you did your show and you did lots of other things. But but it's it's it's very interesting um you know that that even the people who uh would be considered you know believing in things that are that are not mainstream there's a limit you know there's always a limit you know it's like yeah okay fine I'll buy that somebody can bend a spoon but I would never buy that someone can actually you know uh cause a tornado or or 01:01:54 call down a UFO Yeah. Yeah. It it was like that. And and in fact, back in 1981, as I recall, my membership application to become a full member more than a student member of the parasychological association was turned down even amongst parasychologists. They didn't want me to be part of their association back then. Wow. So, uh, it has it's clearly a a big struggle. Now, I just discovered a question from a woman, a person whose YouTube name and probably real name is Angel King, and she asks, "Hey, did Ted Owens ever sit 01:02:41 with a sketch artist on these tall beings? If so, where can they be seen?" And it just so happens I have this sketch that Owens personally made and I can share it. Uh it appeared in his book, How to Contact Space People. There it is. There's Twitter and Twitter. They are inside a large UFO. They are looking at something like a TV screen in which they can see the thoughts that are projected to them by Ted Owens. He says that he was trained to use their symbolic language and to send pictures to them of the different effects. And if 01:03:25 you look closely, it says world, heat, and drought. And and so he's asking them to send rain to end a drought. Uh there you can see it's like the sun, I guess, is shining so brightly. and and Ted Owens say is asking them to provide relief to a droughtstricken stricken area which is one of the things he did often. And so there you see his depiction of uh the two aliens he believed were responsible in a large part for his powers. I I find it really um interesting that that Ted always would say, you know, 01:04:06 they were they were uh testing me to see people how people would react to me having this this power. Um, but I also tend to think that it more likely was a a test of what would a human being do with this power, you know, and and you know, there's a whole school of thought that, you know, like like Jacques Valet, if you ask Jacques Valet about this phenomenon and ETSs and this kind of thing, I mean, he's been studying, you know, eupfology forever, longer than probably anybody alive. and and um he 01:04:41 would say, you know, he's not even sure any of it's real. you know that that maybe all of this is is like a teaching mechanism, you know, that that may appear as a UFO or as a manted being or as a fairy or as a you know, dragon or you know, who knows what something in the DMT realm, you know, um but it's all there for the same purpose, which is uh you know, again, just to kind of crack us open and act as a permission slip, you know, and and I I go back and forth on it, but I think that there is no 01:05:11 wrong answer. I think in one way it's just as real as you or I having this conversation, but in another sense it's not, you know, it's it's like we're we're we're kind of making it up as we go. You know, it's like we we only render what we sort of can cognize and see. So um you know it's it's an interesting scenario as to just like you know how how much of it was Owens and how much of it was you know these space intelligences and where is a separation of the two or the three and all of us. Yeah. Yeah. And and and we we we hear 01:05:52 these stories all the time. I mean oftentimes has nothing to do with UFOs. Uh, it's it's uh near-death experiences like you guys have a lot of talk to a lot of near-death experiencers or or uh you know um DMT experiences like like um what Jeffree was talking about earlier, you know, it's it's there's just a catalyst. there's a thing that happens, you know, and and until you have that thing happen, it's like you just got these blinders on and and it's really really hard to to see or or to cognize, 01:06:20 you know, um really your own potential, I think, you know, and and again, then we ask ourselves, so what happens if everybody could, you know, wake up on the wrong side of the bed and cause a thunderstorm or something? I mean, then we're, you know, that's a whole other question which I can't answer. Yeah. or believe that they could do it. Yeah. And maybe practice in some regard. I think that that is that brings up I think the core issue with parasychology in general or at least that seems to be 01:06:48 one of the core issues is fear around these abilities and that on one hand I think people are mesmerized by it and on another hand people are might reject it out of maybe in some ways a healthy fear or for us to really contemplate if this is really possible which it seems it is how do we go forward with that and Jeeoff I know you've contemplated in that for decades, right? Well, of course, many of the episodes in the Ted Owens story resulted in loss of life or loss of property or serious damage to to 01:07:29 people. Uh, and it wasn't always pleasant. And and so I learned a lesson from all of that because I maintained a a good relationship with Ted Owens the whole time. Uh e even to the point of criticizing him uh for what he was doing, I think he respected me uh because I treated him with a certain amount of courtesy which most other people didn't. when he went into a a new city like on one occasion he walked into the offices of the San Francisco Chronicle, the big newspaper in San Francisco to announce that he, the great 01:08:09 PK man, had arrived and was about to end another drought in in the city. Well, he didn't get past the guards in the lobby. They threw him out right away. and and often times when he would announce, "I'm about to do another demonstration," people would laugh at him and ridicule him. And so he would say, "Well, I guess I need to teach you a lesson." And it kind of worked that way. And so the lesson for me and I suppose I learned this lesson much earlier when I was working in San Quentin prison doing 01:08:43 group therapy with murderers and rapists. Everyone no matter how much of a criminal they may be is a precious human being and deserves a measure of courtesy and and respect. And when you give that to them uh chances are they're not going to harm you. The actually on one occasion uh I did tell Ted Owens we had a we had a little bit of an argument because we were on the phone talking and he had just done one of his most amazing demonstrations uh producing a UFO sighting for me in in the San Francisco Bay area. He said it 01:09:26 would occur within a number of days. It would be seen by hundreds of people. it would be photographed and the photograph would be published on the front page of one of your local newspapers. That all happened within days. And so he was really, you know, in feeling his oats at that time. And I had the gall to say to him, "Well, you promised three sightings and so far we've only had two." and he got really angry, slammed the phone down, and I suddenly began to feel a sore throat coming on. The kind of you 01:10:04 get this scratchy tickle in your throat, and you know, uhoh, I'm about to get it's about to get worse. This is the first sign of a bad sore throat. And that's how I felt. And then 45 minutes later, he called me back and he apologized without saying what had happened. He said, "Jeffrey, I apologize. I will never do that to you again." And immediately the sore throat cleared and I was fine. So to me the lesson here is no matter who you are with every human being, every sentient being deserves a measure 01:10:46 of courtesy and respect. You don't have to be mean to anybody unless maybe you know you're struggling for your life or something that you're in in in the middle of a battle. But short of that, I think people deserve uh to be treated respectfully. You know, um a lot of times people would ask Russell Tar, why is it that you got such great results at SRRI, uh you know, better results than many of the other labs that have studied remote viewing? And his answer is very simple. He says it's unconditional positive regard. And 01:11:23 uh there's a there's an author or a philosopher that he got that from and I don't remember the person's name but but that that was his philosophy and I think it's a very very good philosophy you know and and and in particular when it comes to uh parasychology and the paranormal is is that you you have to have unconditional positive regard because you don't know what someone else is going through. I think it's a good philosophy in life frankly. Yeah. I mean it's it's a um you know you you have to 01:11:50 just take things as they come from an open heart. I think it was according to my search here Carl Rogers. Carl Rogers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Carl Rogers. Yeah. Um the found centered therapy. Yeah. I I I also want to point out that that uh you know from studying a lot of Owens's uh correspondence that that it's not as his the way he he claimed his abilities worked, it's not as easy as like I'm going to give Jeffree the the force choke now. You know, it's like oftentimes um he would sort of put out a general 01:12:28 intention but have no idea how it was actually going to manifest. Uh and and a great example of that is uh this guy Lance Renzel. Does that ring a bell, Jeffrey? uh the the the Cowboys uh star player, you know, who who he was trying to make a point uh um you know, through his uh sports manipulation and he wanted to get Lance Renzel off the Dallas Cowboys list and uh um and then Lance Renzel had this like bizarre meltdown where he uh you know exposed himself to and then just it's like a really big 01:13:02 mess and the guy like wound up going to jail and it was terrible. and and uh in the correspondence, Ted writes, you know, I had no idea that that I was going to do something like that or it was going to work out that way. I just wanted to get the guy off the field and I'm going to send him positive energy to try to like you know, work it out, you know, like I I really didn't want something like that to happen. And I feel like um you know Ted was sort of like a bull in a china shop and and uh many many of the things that he did he 01:13:30 he he didn't uh um intend to do that way but it was it's sort of just like unchecked. It's like uh the Twilight Zone episode with the little kid that can send you to the cornfield for for any reason. But but he's not trying to do it necessarily. Although I think there were times where you know he just had a really a bad temper. I think all of the years of being ridiculed um and you know he he would drink heavily he would he would uh you know spend a lot of time in isolation and he wasn't financially successful um all of that 01:14:02 combined I think would make him sort of sort of unstable and you know a fascinating character but um also sort of tragic you know in a way and and you know we think of like sort of healing abilities and the abilities to summon UFOs and all these things as this sort of angelic thing that you must be this you know saint in order to do and and uh he's perfect evidence that that uh you know that's not the case necessarily being psychic and being saintly uh I'm sure there's a lot of overlap actually 01:14:37 but they are distinct well you know one of the uh conversations that I had with uh Kit Green you know I don't know if you know you know Kit Green who was the former uh head of biosciences for the um CIA um and was the contract monitor at SRRI for a while and circa 2015 I went to Wayne State University to interview him you know for third eye spies and uh he said some stuff which at the time I was very skeptical of and and after being exposed to the Owen story I'm now much less skeptical of uh and that is 01:15:13 that he felt the only really really good people who could do PK or or uh remote viewing like the 100enters like the people who got it right all the time uh had very very high IQs you know and were and were very very smart uh you know um I didn't know this but apparently he told me that uh Pat Price's IQ was off the charts and Pat Price was the best remote viewer or at least one of them that they ever had and the fact that Owens was a member of Mensah uh and uh was so brilliant and it comes through in his writing and and 01:15:51 uh you know he was really kind of his own researcher in a way but he was so smart. It makes me wonder because at the time I thought, yeah, you know, Kit being a former CIA guy, maybe he's just, you know, it's kind of a you you must be brilliant in order to do this. You know, sure you can carry a tune, but to really be good at it. And and uh, you know, makes me wonder if if uh Owens's IQ actually played into sort of his abilities in some way. Lance, we have a question here from uh Pablo Geraldo again, one of our 01:16:24 volunteers who is asking, "What is unique about the PK man documentary compared to your previous films?" And also, let's remind our viewers that we do have a GoFundMe page and perhaps you could explain why. Sure. Sure. Um well what's what's unique about this is that I'm going about it in a uh really a different way. I already kind of explained like you know how I'm kind of embracing new technologies for this. Um, frankly, when we started discussing this documentary, I thought it was going to be more costly and time consuming and 01:17:00 much more difficult and uh, you know, because um, you know, I was still reliant upon, you know, um, older tools like, you know, like going to stock footage sites, having to go to, you know, news stations and gather stuff. We still have to do some of that, but um there is a way to narratively tell the story now that didn't exist three or four years ago. And and that's I think going to make it really unique as sort of a hybrid uh docu drama, you know, like um as opposed to just strictly talking heads because 01:17:35 there's not that many talking heads, frankly, left. It's like we have to proceed off of um you know, the literature and the the letters. it becomes much more Ken Burns Civil War than it does uh you know a contemporary documentary about modern times. Um so so there's that. I think that makes this documentary really unique is that we're going to approach this from a much more kind of a narrative storytelling perspective. Um and what was the other part of the question? I'm sorry. Um to talk about why we're uh creating a 01:18:10 GoFundMe page, right? Crowdfunder page. So, so, um, I'm I'm we're doing this basically with or without, um, outside assistance. And, uh, right now, you know, I've I've broached it with a few documentary, uh, distributors, and there's people that are interested in the documentary, but not in terms of putting up large advances. That's just not where the industry is at right now. So, if the movie is going to happen, it has to happen because we make it happen. And um I need to be able to um support 01:18:40 myself to do the labor and um and you know bring in a small group of people to help uh you know put everything together and and uh you know really it's it's going to be what we as a community put into this you know is going to be what makes this film happen you know and uh it's just a dayby-day thing as I I we have a a good script and a layout for the documentary. We've done some interviews. we've um got enough material, more than enough material to make three documentaries, frankly, but um it's just getting all of that takes 01:19:14 time and it takes money, you know, to so there's there's really no mystery about it and and uh but I do feel like we are at a place technologically in the film industry and whether it be any kind of documentary or or narrative film that we can um do far far more with less. So, I'm trying to just, you know, make this thing happen, basically. And I should let our viewers know that there is a link if you're interested in in helping us, there is a link to our crowdfunder page in the description of this video. 01:19:51 The description, if if you're watching the uh archival video, you just scroll down uh below the actual video. I don't know for viewers watching us live if if it shows up, but it it will be there in in the video description that normally appears when you scroll down. Yeah, it's there now as well. I I want to also say um that one of the things now really driving me to do this is is the support that we've gotten thus far. I mean, it's just it's it's a handful of people, but I mean, there's people who have donated 01:20:26 $1,000 to this project, which amazes me, you know, and and and it honors me and I'm like really moved um by the the the people who have believed in in the project and I know really believe in you, Jeffrey, and have followed the show for a long time and and um believe that this is a story that that deserves to be told because um you know, that's that's what it's going to take really for for us to um see this through to completion. So I'm just going you know week by week and and uh working and and we'll just 01:20:56 keep moving forward and I'm thank you to everybody who's contributed. So uh there are some additional questions quite a few questions coming in from our uh viewers. People want to know for example have we been in touch with any of the followers of of Ted Owens? people who worked with him and knew him while he was alive. Great question. And I have read some of the correspondence um from those people, but uh but no, no, we have not. I haven't anyway. I don't know. Have you Jeffrey reached out? Well, we of course 01:21:31 of course there's Wayne Grover. We have his audio testimony. That's right. Uh we we just uh we just contacted Wayne Grover. Wayne Grover was uh one of the reporters for the National Enquirer. And this is going to be a big part of the documentary because it's my favorite story that I love telling. And uh Wayne Grover um was based in Lantana, Florida at the Enquirer offices there, National Enquirer. And Ted had been hired by one of Wayne's producers uh or editors to make a UFO appear. And and so he showed up at the site. He made the 01:22:06 UFO appear. and and uh um the producer who was there with the camera said, "Well, yeah, but it's like lights in the sky. It's not I can't really make out anything clearly. It could just be, you know, something else. I I don't know. I'm not going to pay you." So, whatever their fee was, the Owens wasn't going to get paid. And Owens being Owens was like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I'm going to bring a hurricane down on you for for uh you know, for doing this to me." and and uh I guess like what a week later, 3 4 days later, 01:22:37 unexpectedly there's three hurricanes converging on Lantana, Florida, you know, and and uh Wayne Grover calls Owens and says, "Um, look, man, I I live in Lantana, Florida, and there's a whole bunch of people that are going to get hurt or die if you if you do this. If it's you and you're doing this, you got to call it off." And Owens said, "You know, you're right. I was upset and I wasn't thinking clearly, and I'm I'm going to take it back. I'll I'll I'll uh I'll call it off. And then sure enough, 01:23:04 the hurricanes just part go back out to sea and it didn't didn't hit Florida at the time. So, uh we need to find the original hurricane footage of of that, you know, like that's one of the things that we really need to find. Came David, it it was a major hurricane. Yeah. Yeah. and and um so what we do have as opposed to contemporary interviews with a lot of his followers is um things like Wayne Grover's at the time audio interview you know from that era uh Jeffrey was u you know forwardinking enough to actually go 01:23:40 out and get several audio interviews um most importantly with Owens himself you know I mean you you you took a I'm sure a real toreal at the time and and um got Owens to sit there for days on end and just tell his whole story, his whole life story, you know, um, and then also interviewing some of the other people that knew him. So, we've got those audio tapes as a good jumping off point. And again, it would be really, really hard for me as a documentary filmmaker to only just have the audio tapes if this 01:24:10 was three, four years ago and then have nothing else to put over it. That would mean I would have to create everything, you know, go out and get stock footage for everything or um, you know, figure something out. But with the advent of AI, with the advent of new technology, we can actually uh create, you know, things to to have in the documentary to go with that audio or with the original letters that we also have much more easily. and and uh I am sort of going to take a or am taking a Ken Burns style 01:24:42 approach to the making of this where um but with a much more visual flare than Ken Burns but but uh where we literally will take letters that are um written by Owens written to Owens back and forth from Jeffrey to Owens to other scientists uh public personalities um and and then reenact them in Owen's own voice you know use using the technology now uh reading some of that correspondence and bringing it back to life. And uh it's kind of like Owens is reborn in in the documentary, not just with his original archival audio, but 01:25:15 with his correspondence as well, which I find really interesting. And uh one of I can't now locate it, but one of our viewers happened to notice that there was one of Ted Owen's students who who actually commented, oh, it was probably a couple of years ago in the comment section on one of our videos, as I recall, a woman named Janice Lesley who took his training course and he taught her how to go out at night and and make UFOs appear. Back uh in in the 1970s before other people were doing it, Ted Owens was 01:25:59 training people to do that and and some of those people I think are still around. I I you might have audio from Janice. I don't know if it's Janice, but there's a woman in a lot of the audio uh that you interviewed. I I don't It could have been her. Um, it could very well have been. Mhm. But but but yeah, now sort of summoning UFOs has become the vogue kind of thing, you know, to to do. But uh yeah, it's been around forever, you know, and and uh uh Ted was doing it before it was cool. There's a question from a viewer who is 01:26:37 also one of our volunteer moderators, and I just want to give them a big thank you. mortal clown who's asking they were just coming in when you were talking about the story with the tarantulas with Ted Owens and they asked may I please ask who was surrounded by tarantulas as they were just coming in and so this is that's a great question thank you uh you know this is the second part of the scene that we showed at the beginning of this live stream you know like so Ted Owens sees the UFO initially this starts 01:27:08 the series of sort of telepathic communications uh that he starts accrediting to the UFO uh you know starts this idea that he can create grids on maps and things and or maps in his mind to control weather patterns and you know this whole thing that that it opens up for him. Um but it culminates several years later when um basically he wakes up uh in the middle of the I guess desert you know somewhere where where uh he's laying flat on the ground naked in the desert and the way he tells the story that basically he was 01:27:43 surrounded by a circle of tarantulas that were he he claimed they were almost like protecting him as opposed to trying to come near him because they they were nowhere near him. There was just this he said there was a circle of of spiders surrounding him and he was laying there in the desert with no clothes on and basically just got up and in a days hobbled back to to to get help for civilization. It's basically an abduction experience and he claims after that experience that they actually did operate on his brain and and uh that 01:28:14 gave him an enhancement to uh what he was doing. And uh he would show people this scar on his head. And I know he had it like uh scanned and nothing anomalous was found, but he always claimed that that was uh you know related to this UFO abduction experience that he had that led to an enhancement of his abilities. So um so I that'll be the you know the the culmination of the scene that I did. I'm already working on it and uh you know we'll have that probably in a week or so. Um but it's uh visually really 01:28:45 really interesting. It's the story that he tells and and uh you know much again not an uncommon story. I mean if you look at fire in the sky or or so many of these other kind of um abduction stories that have existed over the years oftentimes you know that's that's what he claims. So it'll be fascinating to do visually. And here's a fascinating question or a question to which there is a fascinating answer from Mike Frank who says, "Has Ted Owens done any PK from beyond the grave to let Dr. Michlov know he 01:29:22 survived death?" And in fact, that is exactly what happened. And it is well documented. Give me a moment to share my screen and I'm going to Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go and show you if you go to our listings page and I'm going to share it right now. You can see here's the URL newthinkingaloud.comlistings htm or html. And uh if you go to the inpresence uh number 244 and 245, I talk about the return of the PK man and the PK man pilot study interim report and uh those are uh the experiences. It was a couple of years 01:30:15 ago in which Ted Owens pretty well convinced me that he's still active and functioning uh in the other side of the grave, so to speak. So yes, I I believe that uh Ted Owens is actually still out there and and from wherever he is. He seems to be as Lance talked about earlier still affecting the weather here on on Earth or at least uh he's an archetype in our mind. You see, the tricky thing ultimately is is the idea of interconnectedness. Were each of us interconnected with everything? I I uh we should probably mention I know 01:31:00 I'm fascinated by the study that you did and you told me about at the time and I still think it might make a worthy inclusion somehow in the documentary is uh what what Jeffrey did was he he u sort of in meditation reached out to Owens and said uh hey can you make uh the weather uh warmer this winter in Ukraine? Uh because they were wasn't that am I correct in saying that you were you were you were Yeah. Yeah. you you were you know we we want to be able to make it so that when Russia tries to destroy the infrastructure of Ukraine's 01:31:31 grid and freeze everybody out over the winter that they're unable to do that. And they they had a statistically um you know not likely uh warm winter that that winter when you did the experiment. and and um and again even more dramatic, Lance, a few days after the experiment began, there was a heat wave in which a thousand cities across Europe all experienced record hot weather. That's right. And it wasn't just Ukraine. It was because Europe wasn't getting the gas from from Russia. And so they needed 01:32:07 to they needed a warmer winter because they had not had the time to uh make the gas surplus that they needed for the winter because everybody burns gas for for winter. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, fascinating. But again, it it begs this like fundamental question which is that is it that Ted Owens did it or is it that Ted Owens was the permission slip for Jeffrey Mishoff to do it? you know, like like did did you you know this this this fundamental interconnectedness? Um you know, is it that uh Ted Owens goes out into the into 01:32:40 the field of energy around us somehow, the matrix, whatever you want to call it, and and then uh you can connect to that energy, but then you're the one that's basically doing it because you're directing it, you know, and and it's there's a million different ways to think about it. And it's fascinating and speculative, but but it is um really does beg the question, you know, like do do humans have this sort of uncanny ability to do more and more things once somebody else does it? You know, like once somebody proves it's 01:33:11 possible, you know, does that open it up? I'll bet you there's some truth to that in a in a small sort of a laboratory type setting. I haven't looked up the studies, but I'm sure they exist where um it becomes easier. As a matter of fact, I can I can actually tell you in speaking to remote viewing teachers, you know, like one of the the little known secrets of remote viewing teachers is what they'll do is they'll have a folder of targets for remote viewing and you you're you're going to take out one of the random pictures and 01:33:40 you're going to write a random number that associates with that picture. Give it to the remote viewers. They're going to look at it and uh just the numbers and then they're going to tell you what that picture is. you're holding, right? Um without seeing it. Well, the little known secret is that they'll use the same ones over and over again um because once somebody has seen it psychically, they they somehow understand that um it makes it easier for everybody else to then see it later. You know, there's a 01:34:07 it's like you're breaking some sort of a consciousness barrier where where that information gets uploaded to the cloud or something and it's just easier to see. you know what if that applies to everything you know I don't know but but it's a a fascinating idea to think about we have what do we have eight seven minutes seven minutes left so just to let everybody know we have lots of great questions coming in of course as usual we're not able to get to all of them Jeff do you have any burning ones you 01:34:41 want to ask Lance uh here's a question from a viewer whose YouTube name is forshore and he asks, "Is there anyone similar to Ted Owens living today?" Absolutely. Absolutely. I I've I have met um a girl um who uh claims that she can manipulate weather and uh I even sat at a at a party w and and she said, "See these trees over here? Watch this." and she does this little thing and then and then the tree started swaying when none of the other trees were swinging. It was it was a trip. But uh I and there's 01:35:18 another guy that I need to figure out who it is, but it was actually her mentor. It was a guy teaching people how to do this sort of thing. And and uh the one thing I gleaned from that conversation, which was fairly brief, was that the the person who taught her to do that was using grid patterns the same way Owens talked about using. So, I don't know if he learned it from reading about Owens or if this was his own thing, but um but I know that he was out there claiming that he also was doing that. And also, I mean, it's not unusual 01:35:49 for uh Native Americans and Aboriginal people around the earth to believe in things like rain dancing and uh things like that. So, it's it's not an unknown thing. I mean, would you agree, Jeffrey? I would agree. and and there are certainly accounts of different shaman uh particularly in Africa and and amongst Native Americans who have feats comparable to Owens. Uh what makes Owens unique is that decade after decade he endeavored to convince scientists that these abilities were real. And I have in 01:36:24 my files over 160 of Owen's demonstrations. They didn't all work out the way he said they were. My rough estimate is that twothirds of them did and that the odds of any single one working out because he he selected things that were, you know, unlikely and unanticipated. Maybe there was a 1% probability that they would happen, but twothirds of the time they did in fact work out. So I I would say he was enormously successful. uh but maybe only twothirds of the time. it what's what what actually shocks me 01:37:06 about Owens and I don't even know how he could have done this especially back then you know this being the 1960s and 70s but when you look through those files and you see that he's sending you correspondents which is also CCD to you know Russell and how and he and uh Fogle and all these like scientists at the time and he's having to make photocopies of all of these like newspaper clippings and correspondents and predictions that he makes ahead of time. I mean, that was a full-time job for this guy to sit here 01:37:37 and track all of these different things that that he was claiming to do. He would first have to make the prediction, publish it somehow, either in a magazine or a newspaper or at least in correspondence to scientists and then, you know, get the result and then send them the result saying, "See, here I did And there's just hundreds and hundreds of pages of these, you know, handwritten notes that he would circle something and point at it and say, "Here's what I said on this day. Here's where it came true." 01:38:06 And and he had the foresight not only to do that, but also when there were witnesses, he'd gather affidavit. And and when you first told me about that, Jeffrey, I thought, "Oh, that's interesting." But when I actually am I'm am going through those files and I'm seeing the affidavit and I'm seeing, you know, notorized, you know, notorized affidavit by like, yes, I saw Ted Owens do this thing and this is what happened. This is what occurred. Like the uh um the post office bombing uh that I think you weren't even aware of when we found 01:38:34 it. you know, that was in the archives where where he had claimed that uh this post office in Norfol, Virginia was going to be uh bombed, you know, over the weekend and then sure enough, somebody threw a pipe bomb in at the window, you know. So, uh you know, it's it's uh the in a way he was his own researcher and that's where I think his his brilliance uh came in. you know, he was in many ways unstable, but he was also very brilliant and able to coherently document everything that was happening because otherwise we would 01:39:07 have nothing to talk about. This would just be an interesting anecdote uh at a dinner party and and that's it. But but there's actually claims that were backed up by um by evidence, which is really the thing that makes this solid. I've managed to preserve two large filed cabinets full of data, hundreds of documents. Yeah. Yeah. And and and uh we thought that you'd scanned everything and I had looked at all of these files and then I sat there at with you at your house for uh I don't know three days or something 01:39:39 and I I thought, "Oh, I'll just scan these." I thought, "There's not that many." And then I kept pulling out more and more and more and the stuff had not it was only some of it scanned, you know, like not all of it was even scanned. and and uh just a treasure trove of of stuff that that uh you know even just from the the field of eupfology you know just to have all those old newspaper clippings and things from that time is so fascinating to look at you know it's truly a historical thing a rare archive that you both are 01:40:08 bringing to life yes and we we do need help I just want to say so please if you haven't gone to the to the pkmanfilm.com site or the link that Jeffrey provides ides. We we uh um you know need as many contributors and and partners in making this as as we can get. And you are offering really wonderful incentives and gifts for people who donate to helping make the film happen. Yes. Once we're done with the first uh the 60-day uh crowdfunding, I think we have like 20 days left to to raise money and and uh 01:40:42 once that finishes, then we'll send out um you know um digital files of the uh the PK man u class that that Owens offered for the people who had that. And then some of the other perks like um I offered some sort of like I think unique ones where if somebody wants to be in the film um you know I can uh at the at as we move forward I'll reach out if they have that perk and uh you know just ask for a photograph with flat lighting and a neutral expression and and uh and even a sample of your voice if you want 01:41:14 to give it and uh you'll you can be a background player in the film. we'll we'll we'll put you in, you know, um because that's a good possibility not to do. Uh and then uh you know, I reached out to a friend of mine who does um PK classes, uh who may be willing to, you know, come out or if not, my wife also can can do that kind of thing. Um and uh do a little PK demonstration and how you would develop your own PK, you know, as a as a live course as part of this. Um, and I'm blanking on some of the other 01:41:44 perks, but I know there's there's uh several really kind of cool ones that we came up with. Well, thank you, Lance, for being with us. Our time is up for today, but it's been a real pleasure to see you again to share all these wonderful stories. I'd like to remind our viewers they can link to the crowdfunder page by going to the description of the video that appears under the video on YouTube itself. And also if you go to newthinkingaloud.org you can if you wish sign up for our free weekly newsletter. We also have a magazine we 01:42:28 publish. We have a book series and uh we're putting up videos practically every day now. So uh and in addition uh some of you may be interested in volunteering. New Thinking Aloud is actually primarily a volunteer organization. We're only able to do all of these things because we have volunteer help. And if you'd like to join our community of volunteers, for example, helping out with these live stream broadcasts, uh your assistance is is welcomed. And and we'll be posting soon another uh se sequence. Um there's a a brief 01:43:08 challenger explosion sequence I still I want to give you soon. And uh and then the the tarantula sequence I told you we're working on as well. So So eventually you can look for those soon. Emmy, do you have any final thoughts? Oh, well, my final thought is that it's just an honor to be with both of you. I'm really excited to see the film. And there was a question of when they can watch the film. I don't know if you have any predictions of when it might be available. Um, well, it it's it depends 01:43:39 on on partially on the crowdfunding and then and then finding a distributor. Um, we're going to have a a private screening once we finish the the first uh cut of it, whenever that is. That's for one of the perk another one of the perks, I think. But um that may be in person or it may be online uh depending. And um and uh I would say probably I mean for sure I want to be done with this this year, you know, I want to I want this to get because documentaries can take sometimes years, but but I think we have a really 01:44:09 good beat on it. I'm moving through the material fairly quickly now. Um, and it just really comes down to u any kind of financial help we can get to to finish this, whether it's looking for an advance from a distributor or something like that because then I can multiply the the labor involved and get it done more quickly. But, um, you know, yeah, for sure this year by by the end of the year, uh, you know, we we should be, uh, ready to have this out to a distributor. That's awesome. And also while you were 01:44:38 answering these great questions with great answers, I kept thinking about what does this mean for people who don't have these largecale PK abilities for all of us? And maybe we could have you back, Lance, and do another live stream to discuss more of these kinds of questions and topics because I think that that I feel like we're all maybe doing this at on some level and aren't always aware of it and and how this could impact each other in positive directions going forward perhaps. Yeah, I think that's a really great topic and 01:45:09 I would love to do that again soon. You know, maybe when we have another u another couple clips we can show. But but uh yeah I it's that is absolutely an important question and it's like not coming from a place of fear but a place of of understanding the possibilities uh in your own life you know um because it's not just about controlling the weather it's also about creating your own reality I think you know and and uh it's like what do you want to bring into your life what do you want to manifest 01:45:38 in your life um a lot of the way that that uh Owens would describe his what he did worked was through synchronicity you know, it was it was not that he was, you know, trying to do one thing or the other. It was it was um really based upon his emotional place and and it does speak to the fact that you want to be in a better emotional place than a worse one because then you get a better positive outcome, you know. So, and that's why we keep doing these many of these conversations and interviews on 01:46:06 New Thinking Aloud is to help each other with exactly that. I think that's one of the main reasons if not the main reason. Yeah, I think that's the whole the whole point, you know, like the the whole point of even doing this. It's it's not just to scare people. There might be some scary guy out there that can make a tornado, you know. It's it's that um he he was not the best possible choice, but he was demonstrating what any human may be capable of. And that's what I really keep keep coming back to. This was not 01:46:33 some test to see uh what people thought about him. It was a test to see what what what what would a human do if they were at the peak of their own possibil potential, you know, and and we can all use that in our own way. I know I know Jeffrey was asked um by uh Owens when he took Jeff Owens's class uh what do you what do you want to do with this? And and Jeffrey was like, well, I don't want to like I don't want to cause earthquakes or anything. I would I would much rather, you know, use my abilities 01:47:02 to to um talk about, you know, these subjects that interest me and that the world needs to know about. And that's what Jeffrey's done. You know, that's that's that's um you know, you're you know, anything that can be empowering and make people have a wider understanding of their own potential, I think is awesome. Yeah, that's Jeff's psychokinesis. Yeah, he's affected me. Well, thank you both. It's been a a joy and a pleasure, and I look forward to uh having you back as a guest again, Lance, and what you two create going forward. 01:47:39 Thank you, Emmy. Thank you. It was a pleasure meeting you. And um as always, thanks, Jeeoff. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah. And for those of you watching or listening, thank you for being with us because you are the reason that we are here. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. 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